Kicked OUT OF THE WATER TODAY **UPDATE** Post 66

Detroit a problem?

I have lived in and near Detroit for my entire life and have never had a problem and like the City.

If a cop tells me to get on the ground face down i will do it (never happened).

They had a police situation and needed to take full control.

Bob, you have had problems with the police before and are way too touchy. You KNOW that during a "police" situation they don't want to argue with a by stander etc.

You are not going to do anything with a lawyer.

No matter what happens, you must comply with a police officer EVEN if they are wrong!!

Stop and think about this.

Your friend
Chuck

Chuck-N-Detroit said:

I have lived in and near Detroit for my entire life and have never had a problem and like the City.

If a cop tells me to get on the ground face down i will do it (never happened).

They had a police situation and needed to take full control.

Bob, you have had problems with the police before and are way too touchy. You KNOW that during a "police" situation they don't want to argue with a by stander etc.

You are not going to do anything with a lawyer.

No matter what happens, you must comply with a police officer EVEN if they are wrong!!

Stop and think about this.

Your friend
Chuck

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I WILL do something with a lawyer Chuck. Wait and see. I have thought. IF they really had a situation, the STATE POLICE would never have given me the green light. Plain and simple.

Chuck. Also, I DID comply. That isn't the issue. The issue is all the threats I received from the officer if I ever go back. I AM LEGAL.

If the cops know your name it's time to move.

You have the law on your side for salvage work, but that won't help when they find cocaine in your truck, and if you mess with the wrong cop they will "find" it. Cops are caught planting evidence all the time, the question is how often are they not caught.

Heck I wouldn’t search there in the first place as you might run into the dead lady in the deep. Look for gold somewhere else...

Bklein said:

Heck I wouldn’t search there in the first place as you might run into the dead lady in the deep. Look for gold somewhere else...

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I was trained for it. The one thing I learned was the best thing about finding a body underwater is....


nobody can hear you scream.

Scooterjim said:

If the cops know your name it's time to move.

You have the law on your side for salvage work, but that won't help when they find cocaine in your truck, and if you mess with the wrong cop they will "find" it. Cops are caught planting evidence all the time, the question is how often are they not caught.

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Not all cops are crooked. I was one once.

ScubaDetector said:

Not all cops are crooked. I was one once.

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You got to watch out for the 1%ers though. My friend just got kicked off the police force and may do prison time after saying the wrong thing to a senior officer who was cheating on his wife. My friend is probably actually one of the few honorable cops in that county. Will say some of my friends moved from Detroit and wouldn't go back there on a dare

being retired law enforcement in the south, (now a defense investigator), with multiple depts. in the same county, with a countywide sheriff....one problem we always had was the right hand does not take nor get orders from the left hand. hence two depts., different radios, and toooo many people "in Charge". I was once on a drug unit that was combined county wide, while the city still had a separate street unit. more than once we crossed paths in a not so good way with no coordination, and were actually a check and balance on eachother... hence very little communications. it happens all the time.

the people who need to be informed are the last to know, and the most inept are the ones in charge... called politic promotions.

the worst butt chewing I got was when I was a rookie cop trying to preserve an armed robbery scene of a freshly cleaned glass store door before an armed robbery, 7 detectives chewed me out, with a hail of expletives. then the crime lab tech showed up, blessing me out for letting them in. I told him my story, told to take my newbie rookie $#^& outside while grown folks worked, so being brand new I did. the clerk had the cleaning bottle in her hand still, just wiping down the door. the crime lab got a look on his face. I will handle this crowd... the next day 7 detectives with over a 100 yrs experience were trying to explain their prints..all 7... identified as being on the freshly cleaned door.. they blamed me... but it was quickly squished for me by the crime lab tech, who showed the lead detectives partial identified print overlaying the armed robber's print shown by placement on the door of the video camera. an me protesting with them coming in handling things. robber print never identified.... too damaged for technology of the time.

it may be just the sgt was doing what he thought was right but in the wrong way... seen that too many times... but apparently lack of communications on agency parts and lack of communication skills on his part led to this incident.

Verbal Judo is a great book, as we took the course, the golden rule was never let your spouse read it. it works... happy hunting .. be careful... its shark week lol!.

itsaring! said:

You got to watch out for the 1%ers though. My friend just got kicked off the police force and may do prison time after saying the wrong thing to a senior officer who was cheating on his wife. My friend is probably actually one of the few honorable cops in that county. Will say some of my friends moved from Detroit and wouldn't go back there on a dare

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I am in a strange situation. Where I park is run by the Michigan State Conservation Officers and Michigan State Police as a state park. Where I dive is run by the Detroit Harbor Master (Detroit police) The Detroit police do not patrol the park.

I think I have said enough. I just set aside 5 grand to state my case. Some folks will think I am wasting my money. Others will applaud what I do. NOT here for either. I am here to stand up for what I believe is right.

dixiedigger57 said:

Verbal Judo is a great book, as we took the course, the golden rule was never let your spouse read it. it works... happy hunting .. be careful... its shark week lol!.

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Very true!
Forgot to mention. You want to get out of Jury duty tell them you are friends or related to a cop

itsaring! said:

Very true!
Forgot to mention. You want to get out of Jury duty tell them you are friends or related to a cop

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Another way to get out of jury duty is to say you would never believe the testimony of a police officer.

ScubaDetector said:

I am in a strange situation. Where I park is run by the Michigan State Conservation Officers and Michigan State Police as a state park. Where I dive is run by the Detroit Harbor Master (Detroit police) The Detroit police do not patrol the park.

I think I have said enough. I just set aside 5 grand to state my case. Some folks will think I am wasting my money. Others will applaud what I do. NOT here for either. I am here to stand up for what I believe is right.

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I dont blame you. Im prepared to go broke defending what is right. Its like the stupid dry sand law Fl got passed. Homeowner spouts off i tell them call a cop. But if a cop shows up and tells me if i dont leave i will be sorry i am getting the heck out of there

ScubaDetector said:

Not all cops are crooked. I was one once.

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I believe the percentage of honest cops is the same as the percentage of honest employees in any field, but it only takes one crooked one to ruin your day. Look at Dixiedigger57's post, he got his ass chewed 30 years ago and he's still mad about it. If he wasn't a good guy who knows what he would do for revenge. I have personally witnessed bad cops in action, it's a shame the few bad ones sully the reputation of the good ones.

Scooterjim said:

I believe the percentage of honest cops is the same as the percentage of honest employees in any field, but it only takes one crooked one to ruin your day. Look at Dixiedigger57's post, he got his ass chewed 30 years ago and he's still mad about it. If he wasn't a good guy who knows what he would do for revenge. I have personally witnessed bad cops in action, it's a shame the few bad ones sully the reputation of the good ones.

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Thats the Truth that we often forget; or that some with strong opinions try to keep us from realizing.

Good luck Scuba ! Just keep a calm demeanor, smiling, whispering, etc.... The truth will come out !

Chuck-N-Detroit said:

I have lived in and near Detroit for my entire life and have never had a problem and like the City.

If a cop tells me to get on the ground face down i will do it (never happened).

They had a police situation and needed to take full control.

Bob, you have had problems with the police before and are way too touchy. You KNOW that during a "police" situation they don't want to argue with a by stander etc.

You are not going to do anything with a lawyer.

No matter what happens, you must comply with a police officer EVEN if they are wrong!!

Stop and think about this.

Your friend
Chuck

Click to expand...

Scuba, I have to 100% agree with Chuck's post above.

Pick your battles wisely! Bite your tongue for one day and you'll have every day after to plunder the bottom of the D. Stand your ground to make a point, and while you might end up proving that you're "right" you're just as likely to end up losing your access forever.

Speaking as someone that deals with the City of Detroit bureaucracy on a fairly regular basis, if you have a good thing going the worst thing you can do is bring attention to it. Don't rock the boat!

I still don't get it

ScubaDetector said:

LOL, thanks for all the positive replies. I expected a lot worse.

As I stated. I got the green light. BEFORE I went in. I am not one to push my rights around when something serious is happening.

BUT no officer has the right to threaten to take all my gear as evidence and impound my truck. Sure I have more gear and that would be a very small inconvenience. But my truck?

I shot an email to my lawyer and I have a couple to talk to tomorrow. They want war they will have it.

Just because my salvage operation is small doesn't make it not legal. There is another HUGE problem with the law. But I won't get into that on here. Some folks might be happy that I am being harassed.

I am actually shocked at how much folks are willing to pay me for my adventures. I had two more today. This hobby is absolutely crazy this year.

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Bob,

Most here support you but I don't. The situation was unusual with someone drowning and still in the water and under these circumstances, you should have understood it and left. The fact that they made threats of confiscating your equipment and truck leads me to believe you were resisting their order. You said you tried to explain but at some point it is considered arguing. Someone mentioned that they should have asked you to look for the person. We all know that is IMPOSSIBLE. Asking a by stander to help and they would be sued if something went wrong.

I believe it keeping my head down.

On a somewhat similar situation:

I was detecting in the spring a few years ago on the Detroit, River and was out fairly deep. Out in the middle of the river was an over turned aluminum fishing boat and could barely see 2 people hanging on. I ran to my car and drove to the police station which was but one block away. The officer called for help and in 2 minutes 5 police cars came racing toward a dock going out into the river. I ran over to "help" by telling them what I knew. An office told me to get the hell out of the way and get off the dock. I was the person who helped save the 2 persons their lives but was treated like XXXX!. It was a police situation and they did not want anyone in their way.

I smile when I think about it.

Chuck

Chuck-N-Detroit said:

Bob,

Most here support you but I don't. The situation was unusual with someone drowning and still in the water and under these circumstances, you should have understood it and left. The fact that they made threats of confiscating your equipment and truck leads me to believe you were resisting their order. You said you tried to explain but at some point it is considered arguing. Someone mentioned that they should have asked you to look for the person. We all know that is IMPOSSIBLE. Asking a by stander to help and they would be sued if something went wrong.

I believe it keeping my head down.

On a somewhat similar situation:

I was detecting in the spring a few years ago on the Detroit, River and was out fairly deep. Out in the middle of the river was an over turned aluminum fishing boat and could barely see 2 people hanging on. I ran to my car and drove to the police station which was but one block away. The officer called for help and in 2 minutes 5 police cars came racing toward a dock going out into the river. I ran over to "help" by telling them what I knew. An office told me to get the hell out of the way and get off the dock. I was the person who helped save the 2 persons their lives but was treated like XXXX!. It was a police situation and they did not want anyone in their way.

I smile when I think about it.

Chuck

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Believe what you want. That is fine. I understood EVERYTHING. That is why I asked permission in the first place. Guess we will see what happens. I am not bowing down.

I was OUT of the water with my GEAR OFF when I was threatened by a newcomer to the situation. Had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the situation they had on their hands. I did follow what I was told AT ALL TIMES.

I posted what happened. I am done and will wait to see what can be done. Thanks for the input on both sides.

Zofchak said:

... Pick your battles wisely! Bite your tongue for one day and you'll have every day after to plunder the bottom of the D. ...

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Chuck-N-Detroit said:

.... and under these circumstances, you should have understood it and left. .... You said you tried to explain but at some point it is considered arguing..... I believe it keeping my head down.....

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Zofchak and Chuck : If you've been around for awhile on FMDF, you'd know that this is not the first LEO encounter saga of Scubas (and I say that with no disrespect scuba).

On a prior incident , I was suggesting JUST the way you guys are wording it. I agree. That .... even if the face of a cop is wrong or corrupt, etc... : We gotta put ourselves in their shoes. Ie.: While it's true that we may be "right" and they may be "wrong" (on a certain issues technicalities), yet ... when it comes to this hobby: Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

I see it as: "What will allow me to detect the most available real estate for the oldest coins?" . Not "Am I right?"

And even if the dude had said "You can never dive here again", I'll bet you dollars to donuts he was speaking out of the haste of the chaos (a drowning, an investigation, etc...). And he will promptly forget it. And a week later, you'd never see him, and you can dive to your heart's content.

Example: I've had situations where I got "scrammed" from a park . I could *certainly* have disputed the issue. To try to show there's no law or rule forbidding. And I sometimes make a feeble attempt, of course. But if I see it going nowhere, I give lip service. Give the place a "rest", and ... just return later. (Assuming, of course, I could tell it was random and mood-driven and not a real rule) . I do not construe every single "scram" as "gospel law from then on out", that needs to be fought.

ScubaDetector said:

Believe what you want. That is fine. I understood EVERYTHING. That is why I asked permission in the first place. Guess we will see what happens. I am not bowing down.

I was OUT of the water with my GEAR OFF when I was threatened by a newcomer to the situation.

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Nobody is doubting any part of your story. We're just saying that .... sometimes in this life, there comes a time when ... unfortunately .... you give lip service. Even if/when you "asked permission". Even if/when threatened, etc...

As for "bowing down", there is sometimes a fine line between explaining oneself, to arguing. Yes I know it's totally capricious and whimsical and "not fair". But sometimes life ISN'T fair.

And I say this with utmost respect, because I know you prevailed on a prior fabled experience. The stuff of legends in reading here.