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-   -   All Metal vs Coin Mode (https://metaldetectingforum.com/showthread.php?t=256406)

modeltguy 01-25-2018 09:38 AM

All Metal vs Coin Mode
 
Fairly new at this and need enlightenment. If a detector has both audio and visual indicators, and if it is supposed to go deeper in all metal mode, why use the coin/jewelry settings? Wouldn't it make sense to use all metal and choose your digs using the visual or audio indications?

IDXMonster 01-25-2018 09:53 AM

Depends how much your brain can accurately process,a signal is normally acquired through audio and confirmed visually. I hunt one type of conductor at a time,if Iím coin hunting. That way I can pay attention to one specific small range of tones and TIDs. Listening and trying to interpret everything can be mind numbing.
True depth is achieved by coil size. Conditions can and will affect the end outcome.

Tpmetal 01-25-2018 09:53 AM

thats what i do, but it requires being very diligent and alert. if im lazy ill switch over to a program

sllingshot47 01-25-2018 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modeltguy (Post 2884559)
Fairly new at this and need enlightenment. If a detector has both audio and visual indicators, and if it is supposed to go deeper in all metal mode, why use the coin/jewelry settings? Wouldn't it make sense to use all metal and choose your digs using the visual or audio indications?

That's the smart way to do it, as some fine gold gives off the iron grunt. Have also found nice pocket knives. Also more likely to hit good targets near iron trash. After a while, sizing , sound, and other characteristics will become familiar. It's just that some hunters find the continuous sounds annoying and would rather cherry pick. The "lucky" hunters use a/m.:cool:

Detector 01-25-2018 09:58 AM

AM (All Metal) will get deeper, but, what they don't tell you is everything else becomes basically useless. No Visual ID or Tone ID that you can depend on. You just pretty much have a beep-N-dig situation. If it makes a noise, you dig and hope its something besides junk.

Very few places have I ever found AM useful. If a site is super clean, is there such a thing?, or a tot lot. Maybe the beaches I wouldn't know because we have none.

Tpmetal 01-25-2018 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detector (Post 2884568)
AM (All Metal) will get deeper, but, what they don't tell you is everything else becomes basically useless. No Visual ID or Tone ID that you can depend on. You just pretty much have a beep-N-dig situation. If it makes a noise, you dig and hope its something besides junk.

Very few places have I ever found AM useful. If a site is super clean, is there such a thing?, or a tot lot. Maybe the beaches I wouldn't know because we have none.

This has not been my experience with my detector. The differences in how the signal sounds and vdi actually still works pretty well for me the majority of the time. and I hunt cellar holes mostly.

Detector 01-25-2018 11:10 AM

Understood Tpmetal, but I have yet to find a detector that hits a 12" piece of metal and can accurately tell you if its iron, copper or silver by sound or VDI.

ghound 01-25-2018 01:56 PM

You can do both, there's a number of detectors that run an AM and a discrimination channel at the same time, best of both worlds.

Detector 01-25-2018 02:23 PM

Quote:

there's a number of detectors that run an AM and a discrimination channel at the same time, best of both worlds.
I have no doubts about that, but that wasn't what I suggested. You show me just one of those that can accurately and consistently ID a coin at that depth and I'll show you the best detector made hands down. Oh, and you could spot one pretty easily because it would be the one everyone would be using.

Let's face it using the best of today's detector technology, reliable target ID, be it tone or visual, maxes out around 8", and even then it depends on conditions. One of the claims about the new Equinox is deeper accurate target ID at greater depth than predecessors. If true, it will change the game for all manufactures.

And just for the record, only a handful of detectors are capable of somewhat consistent reliable ID at 8". The vast majority is more like 6"

ghound 01-25-2018 03:29 PM

I was addressing the OP

But, as you asked, yes my machine can do all that you state, and more lol


Quote:

Originally Posted by Detector (Post 2884689)
I have no doubts about that, but that wasn't what I suggested. You show me just one of those that can accurately and consistently ID a coin at that depth and I'll show you the best detector made hands down. Oh, and you could spot one pretty easily because it would be the one everyone would be using.

Let's face it using the best of today's detector technology, reliable target ID, be it tone or visual, maxes out around 8", and even then it depends on conditions. One of the claims about the new Equinox is deeper accurate target ID at greater depth than predecessors. If true, it will change the game for all manufactures.

And just for the record, only a handful of detectors are capable of somewhat consistent reliable ID at 8". The vast majority is more like 6"


Detector 01-25-2018 04:02 PM

Quote:

yes my machine can do all that you state, and more lol
And that would be? Or is that a double knot spy thing? LOL

ghound 01-25-2018 04:10 PM

No secret, AKA MFD

graybeard 01-25-2018 04:26 PM

All metal is not the same on all detectors. Using most of them they would be a beep and dig everything detector, then all you can do is guess what the target is until it's dug.

ghound 01-25-2018 04:33 PM

True all metal would have no filtering of the signal, so you hear everything with no tone/visual ID, a bit of a bugger on a busy site lol not my cup of tea!

Midknight 01-25-2018 05:20 PM

I use All Metal Mode on the ATP usually... Ive just gotten used to it giving me a bunch of info at once. I honestly enjoy the more info I can get out of it, preferably from audio. It does take more patience, and although it is deeper it can alter the signals to a point where its difficult to understand them so you are basically gambling.

From reading the responses in this thread, I am confused in what some of you are saying that true all metal mode will make it into a beep and dig machine. From what I understand, that would make the md a PI machine, which is literally beep and dig unless tech has changed recently. PI machines are very deep, but they don't discriminate at all... at least not with the current tech in most of them. Currently, various md manufacturers are working on updating the tech of PIs to get disc and depth, but as of yet I haven't heard anything new in a yr or two.

Detector 01-25-2018 05:42 PM

Quote:

and although it is deeper it can alter the signals to a point where its difficult to understand them so you are basically gambling
I.E. Beep-N-Dig. It means you really just are guessing if its a good signal or a piece of trash, so if it makes a noise, you dig.

Contrary to what some will say, I have yet to have anyone produce a detector that can go AM and have accurate target ID below 8" consistently. None, Nada don't exist, YET! If such a detector existed, common senses tells you it would be what everyone used. Right? DUH!

I've had many good detectors that could get extremely deep and SOMETIMES even give me a good accurate ID, either tone or visual, at 10", but that is the exception to the rule. Like the halo so to say.

I know it is just a matter of time before new detecting technology will break that barrier and I wanna be one of the first to own one. I got lots of really great places with some really great finds waiting for such a detector. Right now my hope is on the Equinox. Time will tell.

ghound 01-25-2018 06:46 PM

This is what all metal and a discrimination sounds like at the same time.
You can hear the all metal first as it approaches the coin, then the ping of the disc channel, then the all metal again as the coin leaves the coils field.
When the target is deeper, you might just get an all metal report, without the disc report. You then have to rely on the how it sounds, does it feel smooth and round etc, or with this particular machine, switch it to deep mode to confirm ID.

https://youtu.be/zWgAlmcd01s

Quote:

Originally Posted by modeltguy (Post 2884559)
Fairly new at this and need enlightenment. If a detector has both audio and visual indicators, and if it is supposed to go deeper in all metal mode, why use the coin/jewelry settings? Wouldn't it make sense to use all metal and choose your digs using the visual or audio indications?


sllingshot47 01-25-2018 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detector (Post 2884568)
AM (All Metal) will get deeper, but, what they don't tell you is everything else becomes basically useless. No Visual ID or Tone ID that you can depend on. You just pretty much have a beep-N-dig situation. If it makes a noise, you dig and hope its something besides junk.

Very few places have I ever found AM useful. If a site is super clean, is there such a thing?, or a tot lot. Maybe the beaches I wouldn't know because we have none.

I was referring to motion a/m- which, even on my Ace 250 has tone and visual ID.:cool:

graybeard 01-26-2018 05:47 AM

Most detectors don't actually have all metal. They run in discriminate all metal as they call it. The only all metal on most detectors is in pinpoint.

Detectors using mixed mode, use discriminate motion and pinpoint non-motion at the same time, that makes them detect most everything in the ground.

ghound 01-26-2018 06:10 AM

Yes and no, the last 2 mixed mode detectors i've had, the all metal side was motion.
But they did have some form of filtering in all metal, and there was a big difference in sensitivity to small items between them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by graybeard (Post 2884971)
Most detectors don't actually have all metal. They run in discriminate all metal as they call it. The only all metal on most detectors is in pinpoint.

Detectors using mixed mode, use discriminate motion and pinpoint non-motion at the same time, that makes them detect most everything in the ground.



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